Template:Did you know nominations/Y Sap mine

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:35, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Y Sap mine[edit]

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The plan for the placement of the mine.
The plan for the placement of the mine.

Created/expanded by ViennaUK (talk). Nominated by Iazyges (talk) at 03:32, 9 November 2016 (UTC).

  • There are problems here which need to be addressed. Going through the criteria:
  • Article is long enough, well over 1500 characters, and was nominated soon after creation, and it is most emphatically not a stub.

::*Content is not policy compliant. There are problems with copyright violation. For example, the sentence "The sound of the blast was considered the loudest man-made noise in history up to that point, with reports suggesting it was heard in London." is lifted directly from [www.amusingplanet.com/2014/05/lochnagar-mine-crater.html this source],

 Done Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:00, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

and a later paragraph is way too close paraphrasing (and found in multiple sources):

From Source: The whole earth heaved and flashed, a tremendous and magnificent column rose up in the sky. There was an ear-splitting roar drowning all the guns, flinging the machine sideways in the repercussing air. The earth column rose higher and higher to almost 4,000 feet. There it hung, or seemed to hang, for a moment in the air, like the silhouette of some great cypress tree, then fell away in a widening cone of dust and debris.
From Article: At Boisselle the earth heaved and flashed, a tremendous and magnificent column rose up into the sky. There was an ear-splitting roar, drowning all the guns, flinging the machine sideways in the repercussing air. The earthly column rose, higher and higher to almost four thousand feet. There it hung, or seemed to hang, for a moment in the air, like a silhouette of some great cypress tree, then fell away in a widening cone of dust and debris.
It was changed to a quotation before I arrived to fix it. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:00, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

::*Two paragraphs contain no citations, the first of "aerial observation" and the "fate" section, plus there is a citation needed tag. References are properly formatted in the bibliography, which contains no bare urls. However, some of the links in the website sections are to homepages and not to the actual pages referenced. For example, Banning (2001) points to http://www.laboisselleproject.com/ but should be targeted at http://www.laboisselleproject.com/tunnellers/ Other than as noted, there are sufficient references for DYK rules, though editors may add further cn's.

 Done for retargeted ref, and fate, looking for aerial observation still. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:10, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

:::One source [1], has a photograph of the hole as of 2010, so I think the fate part is wrong, as it suggests that it was filled up around the time of the end of the war. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:00, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

That source was for Lochnagar crater, my bad. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:02, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

::*Some references are out of order (ie. [7][5]), and there is a "see also" linked to a bare url

  • Neutrally written, no signs of disputes.
  • Proposed hooks have been copyedited for capitalisations (and the article needs this too), and are short-enough. The differences are stylistic. I prefer ALT1, but the closer choosing ALT0 would make little difference.

::*Hook is referenced to Dunning (2015), which is a home page with no mention of the Y Sap mine. This reference is used multiple times, so either those references all apply to a single page to on that site, or to multiple pages all accessible from the home page, in which case the references need fixing. I am unable to confirm the hook as the relevant references are 5 and 7, and both are mistargeted.

  • I do find the hooks sufficiently interesting.
  • I note that the article creator, ViennaUK, has no DYK credits and the nominator, Iazyges, has only 3 DYK credits, so no QPQ review is required. ViennaUK, you have put together a fine article, well done, though you need to be careful with quotations from sources. Iazyges is an experienced editor, and will hopefully help you to learn more about contributing and addressing problems which arise in DYK nominations.
This nomination cannot proceed until the referencing issues are addressed and the copyvio fixed, plus I need to see the actual references supporting the hook. EdChem (talk) 12:49, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
I will be striking all the finished issues, for ease of checking that they are done. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:27, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

**There is still a bare url in the text - the "see map" at the end of the second paragraph of "1916" **Reference 6, offered to support the fact in the hook, is about Lochnagar, and its only mention of Y Sap is "It was Lochnagar. The farmer was in the office to get permission to fill it in, a fate that befell its sister mine, Y Sap two years previously." **Reference 8 (Banning, 2011) does not mention Y Sap at all. **So, I definitely still need a definitive source in the article for the hook fact. It appears to me that reference 2 would suit. **Close paraphrasing is shown in this Earwig search. The parts that concern me are "At the start of the Battle of the Somme La Boisselle stood on the main axis of British attack" and "Despite their colossal size, the mines failed to help sufficiently neutralise the German defences in La Boisselle" **The first paragraph of aerial observation is unreferenced.

  • I'll keep an eye out for your response. It's getting closer.  :) EdChem (talk) 08:53, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
  • @EdChem: I believe I have fixed all that you have mentioned. I tried not to distort the meaning of the words that were copyvio, but if it's still too close ill see what I can do. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 20:14, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
  • I have fixed the paragraph with no citations, adding it also to the hook statement. Copyvio / paraphrasing issue is resolved, thanks, Iazyges. ALT1 is good to go. EdChem (talk) 11:06, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Note: The image suggested is suitably licensed for use but I don't think it looks all that useful for use on the main page. A "pictured" would be needed in the hook if it is to be used. I leave it up to the promoter to choose whether or not to use the image. It's a shame as the image is something different, but with small text and unclear details, it isn't a great option. EdChem (talk) 13:10, 22 December 2016 (UTC)


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