Talk:Union of Hungary and Romania

Proposals

@Super Dromaeosaurus:, could tell me some details about such proposal, if they may be considered notable or seroius? The 1917 one is famous, as well the 1919 one. I mentioned the triple concept with Austria in the other page's edit log, but that would involve three countries. Before I would continue, I need to know exatcly what you are refer to. Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:51, 27 January 2021 (UTC))

Hello, do you mind if I do this tomorrow? Right now I am just cleaning my watchlist and I'll close my computer after that. It takes me a while to read in Romanian (the main source I got information from is in Romanian), specially academic and long texts. Super Ψ Dro 21:59, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

By the way, can you also give me some more information about that "Austria-Hungary-Romania" proposal? I am interested by this kind of things. Super Ψ Dro 22:15, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Sure, give yourself time. Unfortunaely for the triple concept I did not find sources, once I saw a full documentary in the television (if once I will, I'll let you know).(KIENGIR (talk) 01:16, 29 January 2021 (UTC))

@Super Dromaeosaurus:,

will you be around, or still busy?(KIENGIR (talk) 14:56, 3 February 2021 (UTC))

I am sorry, I forgot about this. Right now I am cleaning my watchlist again but I can confirm that I'll reply to this today, probably at night. Super Ψ Dro 14:58, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

KIENGIR, pages dealing with the subject are 68-90 in Leuștean (2003). There is another German source but I haven't read it. I saw that it was cited in Leuștean's article and I just added it. You're right that the proposals were the most active in 1919 but they lasted into even WW2, although I don't see anything about 1917. It also seems that no Romanian politician, with the exception of "Ioan Erdélyi" (I don't know who he is but he seemed to be quite important in those times) openly supported the proposal. It was also discussed in the times of negotiation of the Treaty of Trianon. Yugoslavia's and Czechoslovakia's governments were pretty worried about this proposal and even stated this to Romania. Their media also talked about this often. The proposal had its peak in 1919 but started dying out after the Romanian retreat from Budapest in November 1919. István Bethlen also supported at some point a trialist state (Hungary-Transylvania-Romania). I don't know much about the Hungarian monarchy's history, but the proposals were fueled by some time after the Habsburgs were denied from arriving to Hungary in 1921. It also appears that Bethlen and Miklós Bánffy, two Hungarians who supported the proposal, were in the government for some time (they were accused of being pro-Romanian). After this until 1926 propoals seem to have been just rumors (of which Bethlen and Bánffy continued to be accused). During all proposals for a Hungarian-Romanian union there were quite a few politicians and negotiations involved but public support was almost nil in both (curiously the opposite of what happened in Bulgaria and Romania). Another interesting thing is that Petru Groza, the first Romanian communist leader, declared himself, "in principle", in favor of a union between the two (in a newspaper from Belgrade, but I don't know the year). In 1926 some new events occur. Bánffy leaves Hungary, goes to Transylvania and asks for Romanian citizenship. He supposedly negotiated a union with Romanian diplomats and politicians for two weeks at Sinaia, but the peasants in Transylvania and some nobles strongly opposed this. Queen Marie of Romania supported a Romanian-Hungarian union during this period, but she seems to have been the only important figure in Romania that did so. Faced with accusations from "V. Nagy" (Vince Nagy, I think) that Bethlen was "attempting to bring the Romanian ruling house to the throne of Hungary by a personal union with Romania", he had to deny a union proposal, and his response was repeated by Hungarian diplomats abroad. After the death of Ferdinand I, Carol II (the new Romanian king) allegedly increased interest among Hungarian politicians in a possible Romanian monarch ruling in Hungary, but politician Nicolae Iorga denied this. Finally, there were also proposals in the middle of WW2. In July 1940 (before the Second Vienna Award), a Hungarian politician (Tibor Eckhardt) together with the Hungarian diplomat in Lisbon discussed with his Romanian counterpart (in Lisbon) the possibility of uniting both countries to avoid a division of Transylvania. Eckhardt made several plans, including making Carol II "prince of Transylvania", a council of nations in the region, a Romanian-Hungarian customs union, and more. Eckhardt even said that he thought Horthy might end up supporting this. In the following couple of years it seems that there were proposals for unions from Hungary and Transylvania (not Romania) and other countries (such as Slovakia and Croatia), but the last serious proposal between Hungary and Romania seems to have been Eckhardt's. Leuștean covers mostly the period in 1919 in his book, so it is correct to say that it was mainly discussed in this year, but the proposal lived on, even until WW2 and probably until the imposition of communism among some circles. Sorry for this bad written and unstructured message, I have been adding information as I read Leuștean's book. Super Ψ Dro 00:34, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Super Dromaeosaurus,

can we say after 1920 no serious proposals have been made?(KIENGIR (talk) 09:55, 5 February 2021 (UTC))

I wouldn't say they were not serious, but we could say that proposals were specially enhanced in 1919–1920 but prolonged up to World War II. Super Ψ Dro 14:34, 5 February 2021 (UTC)