Talk:Tornado outbreak of May 6–10, 2024

Does this REALLY need an article?

It's still happening, has only had two fatalities (one of which is currently still unconfirmed, I may be wrong) and one potentially notable EF4. Shouldn't we wait until the event is over, like we have discussed time and time again? Like I know the fatality thing technically counts it, but the exact same people that jump on to early article creators are literally the people creating articles insanely prematurely. At least wait a day or two, until the event is actually over. MemeGod ._. (talk) 01:31, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Up to five confirmed fatalities now. Honestly, we are already at 40+ surveyed tornadoes, including an EF4 and several other strong tornadoes. I did not create the article, but I would support this staying in mainspace. Had this been created yesterday, that would be different, but 40+ surveyed tornadoes just from the 6th and 7th (with surveys from those two days still being done), combined with today’s event, this deserves an article. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 01:45, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

As the article creator this more then warrants mainspace now. I had planned to keep this in draftspace until it was sufficient enough (if Monday had overperformed I would’ve published earlier but only one sigtor occurred). I planned to wait until Friday to evaluate and decide if I wanted to publish, but then this evening suddenly began overperforming and having enough content to publish (which will be refined soon) and yesterday being somewhat significant especially in Michigan. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 02:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

I think we are good. A handful of fatalities, one EF4, a few emergencies, several in in oddball location (MI). Looks like we got another fairly strong one in Columbia TN and another East of Huntsville AL right now. I tend to prefer to slow roll articles, but this should clear on notability. DarkSide830 (talk) 02:37, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

I personally think we need to re-draftify this article at least for now. It’s only been one day and the outbreak is still going on today. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:2CD6:A354:6174:5087 (talk) 18:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Which that said. I was also one of the very few (if only) IP user who actually participated in the rants about jumping the gun on articles. They being that I am against people jumping the gun. Just like @WeatherWriter and @TornadoInformation12. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:2CD6:A354:6174:5087 (talk) 18:28, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Just a friendly reminder that Wikipedia is not a newspaper. And it ain’t a weather forecast. If someone is wanting to make a wiki-style weather website. They should look at getting Media Wiki. Otherwise, there are numerous websites for getting the weather forecast. Such as the National Weather Service for instance. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:2CD6:A354:6174:5087 (talk) 18:44, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry IP, I have to categorically disagree. As I said, I'm one who tends to want and wait, but comparing this outbreak to many of the ones listed at List of North American tornadoes and tornado outbreaks, I think this clears on notability fairly easily. In fact, I think it cleared two days in quite easily, and is in day 4 now. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:03, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

It’s also still a current event though. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:2CD6:A354:6174:5087 (talk) 20:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

I do see everyone else’s point. I just think in my opinion the article was created a little too fast, that’s all. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:2CD6:A354:6174:5087 (talk) 20:32, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

It was, even if there is sufficient info and it warrants an article, it was still made way too fast. MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 23:24, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Exactly. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:E165:45BB:1ABE:CEC7 (talk) 00:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I mean, I think there’s a sufficient amount of information; and I do think it’ll pass the notability criteria. I just think the article was written too quickly. I think there shouldn’t even be a draft until it’s completely over; doesn’t matter if the SPC is calling for a 100% hatched tornado probability with EF5 long trackers in the NYC metro. But I do think it’s notable enough; outside of that minor issue. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:E165:45BB:1ABE:CEC7 (talk) 01:06, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Most consecutive tornado emergency days?

Does this tornado outbreak have the most consecutive tornado emergency days since 2003? Just need verification. EPhC4 (talk) 12:22, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

It is in fact the most Tornado Emergency days since 2003 according to that list that we have. And coincidentally, the 2024 tornado emergencies happened around the anniversary of the 2003 ones. 21 years to the day. May 6 to May 9 of 2003. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 17:12, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

During the 2003 event, there were four consecutive Tornado Emergency days. We hadn’t had any subsequent events with three or more consecutive Tornado Emergency days until this event 21 years later. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 17:14, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Images

I have quite a few images of tornadic and non-tornadic impacts due to this outbreak, as I was in the direct path of a large supercell. Should I upload/add some of my images? MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 23:38, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

As long as they appear “Wikipedia worthy”; because I had to remove your pictures from a different article because they didn’t really fit with the context of a major tornado outbreak article. Although the threshold for retention per se is much lower on Commons than it is on here. So if it appears not to be worthy of being on Wikipedia; it may still be worthy of being on Commons. And in case you’re wondering what I would expect a picture to show on this article. If I were a reader, I would expect to see pictures of one of the tornadoes, tornado damage, large hail (bigger than golf balls), significant straight line wind damage (such as trees down (not just limbs, but the whole tree), mobile homes severely damaged/destroyed, etc.) and/or major flooding like what Tennessee got. That’s just my opinion anyway. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 05:33, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

If in doubt, go ahead and upload them here and if they don’t appear to make the cut, someone will come along and transfer it to Commons and I’ll remove them. No big deal. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 05:34, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

But either way @MemeGod27, I’m sure you can help with this problem. The Wikimedia Commons template leads to an error page. If you want, you might be able to fix that by uploading all of the aforementioned images to Commons. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 17:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

I have left a message on your user talk page @MemeGod27. Pertaining to this. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 18:59, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Got it, as experienced as I seem, I am actually extremely inexperienced in terms of commons, so I honestly can't really help with anything related to images besides adding them. Thanks! :D MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 19:03, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Neither am I. And as most of you probably already know. I’m just editing as an anonymous IP, so I have to go through WP:FFU to get any files uploaded. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 21:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Tornado times

@MarioProtIV:, @ChessEric:, @Timcigar12: I'm pinging the main editors I've seen to this article to ask that everyone please double check the times of the tornadoes prior to adding them. Almost every one of them added today was/is an hour off. I'm working to fix them while adding the PNSs. wxtrackercody (talk · contributions) 23:54, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, although you're going to have to give me a tip of how to figure it out because I can never remember. ChessEric 23:56, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Easiest way if you're starting off is just to work backwards. 00z is 7pm CT/8pm ET. 06z is 1am CT/2am ET. 12z is 7am CT/8am ET. 18z is 1pm CT/2pm ET. Adjust from there. wxtrackercody (talk · contributions) 00:00, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

It's mostly adjusting for DST. ChessEric 00:05, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

They were like that on the April 2nd article and I kept on about it for a good week probably before someone corrected the times. Let me guess, they were an hour ahead here? 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:E165:45BB:1ABE:CEC7 (talk) 00:17, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

And the easiest way to remember the whole DST thing is that the Eastern Time Zone is 5 hours behind UTC during standard time, and 4 hours behind during daylight (+1 to those numbers for the Central Time Zone). For example 00Z will be 8pm EDT or 7pm EST/CDT or 6pm CST/MDT, etc. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:E165:45BB:1ABE:CEC7 (talk) 00:23, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Another easy way. During daylight savings time, after 8pm in the eastern time zone, if you’re using military time, the second digit in the hour will be the same between the 8pm (2000) and 11pm (2300) hours. Just swap the 2 for a 0 for UTC time. Only works in EDT. (Eg. 2100 EDT is 0100 UTC). And for midnight, imagine it’s 2400 and you can continue that procedure into that hour (eg. 0000 UTC is 0400 UTC). I’m sure the weather service also has a website on UTC times conversion too. Especially for dealing with other time zones and for Eastern Standard Time. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:E165:45BB:1ABE:CEC7 (talk) 00:27, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Here’s that website. https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/aboututc.shtml 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:E165:45BB:1ABE:CEC7 (talk) 00:29, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Was Pleasant View, Tennessee hit?

I used to live and was born there (and I have 10+ relatives there), so I just wanted to know if Pleasent View took a hit from the EF1 tornado on May 8 or wasn't in the path. I can't find any info on the matter, so if anyone knows, thanks! :) MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 13:15, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

It doesn’t appear so. Although the tornado in question still says TBD so neither I nor anyone else knows for sure. Robertson County is one county over from Cheatham County (which is where Pleasant View is located). 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 17:03, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

The tornado in question did hit neighboring Robertson County. But again the exact track is still to be determined. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 17:03, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Please copy images to Commons

The templates saying that “Wikimedia Commons has media related to [so and so]” can get really misleading if you click on the link in the template and it goes to an error page. Please copy and images to commons or I’m going to have to remove the template. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 17:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Please remove the template, idk why that's as there in the first place MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 19:01, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

That was* MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 19:01, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Very well then. Just as long as no one re-adds it. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 19:01, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Alright. I have removed the Commons template. PLEASE do NOT re-add the template until you actually plan on copying images to Commons immediately after. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:5054:A7C6:AA2D:9AE2 (talk) 19:10, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Whenever you’re ready, I think ClueBot can archive this thread. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:34DA:9942:A17E:6615 (talk) 19:19, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Future changes (for standards/consistency)

I have noticed that the article could eventually warrant a "Daily Statistics" table and/or a dedicated "List of tornadoes" (similar to the Tornado outbreak sequence of April 25–28, 2024). However, I understand that this article needs to time to develop information and validate reports, and the current statistics differ from the previous outbreak.

Should these 2 changes be considered for implementation right now (or later on)? Implementing them should be fairly simple, but I wanted to make sure that they would be approved for this article.

This may be too early to bring up now, but I thought this was worth mentioning.

Also, is there an established standard for including certain elements such as these (relative to the statistics of any given tornado outbreak)? I could not find an advice page discussing this, whereas individual tornado sections / articles must meet distinct requirements (as discussed in the past). 2601:2C1:8B80:349F:4A93:1681:C693:D291 (talk) 04:58, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Just to add on to this topic, should the "Daily Statistics" table be removed from (some) existing articles? It appears to be be infrequently used in tornado outbreaks during the 2010s, and aside from the 2011 Super Outbreak, most of the existing articles of similar duration could probably go without the table. Since it was recently removed from the Tornado outbreak sequence of April 25–28, 2024, replacing the tables with the standardized Tornado Chart would maintain consistency.

Sorry about these nitpicks, but I feel that tornado outbreaks frequently have these minor inconsistencies between articles that could be clarified. If this suggestion gets more attention, I may add a separate discussion on WikiProject Weather. 2601:2C1:8B80:349F:4A93:1681:C693:D291 (talk) 17:25, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Bounds of 'constant severe weather and tornado activity'

"The outbreak also served as the end of a 16-day period of constant severe weather and tornado activity across the United States that began with the late-April outbreak – with over 250 total confirmed tornadoes across both outbreaks."

Every day since April 24 has had at least 1 report to the Storm Prediction Center's filtered storm report database - the least active days being April 29 with 10 storm reports and May 5 with 12. Just yesterday, on May 12, there were 49 storm reports, hardly qualifying as the end of constant severe weather activity, not to mention today's enhanced (3/5) risk over the Gulf Coast into Texas.

My question is, where do we draw the bounds on when this active period started and ended? It's not something concrete like a single tornado outbreak, where the bounds are easily drawn. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 12:45, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Can we get an updated version of the current photo

As more tornadoes were confirmed, more warnings were issued the map is now quite outdated. Can someone fix it or does anyone know how to make a similar map? 142.114.56.56 (talk) 21:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Outbreak / outbreak sequence still ongoing?

So far, using the NOAA Damage Assessment toolkit, tornadoes have been confirmed and surveyed on May 11 (1 in TN, 1 in OH, and 3 in PA), May 12 (1 in TX, 4 in LA, 2 in MS, 2 in AL), and May 13 (1 in NC, 2 in MO), in addition to whichever weren't surveyed yet. These were not associated with the initial trough, however should count as standalone tornado outbreaks, even as part of an outbreak sequence. Both today and tomorrow are under at least a 5% tornado risk, meaning that if this is considered a concrete outbreak sequence, it's most likely going to continue at least into the 16th and perhaps into the weekend or even next week. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 15:53, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

It's not the same outbreak, there was another separate trough (as you had stated). MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 16:13, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Outbreak sequences can have multiple troughs/fronts/systems so long as they are in very quick succession (eg. System A moves through Monday and system B moves through Tuesday, etc.), just look back to the 2019 outbreak sequence that affected a number of states (such as Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and others. That sequence lasted for nearly two weeks and very likely consisted of multiple separate storm systems one after another creating many consecutive days of tornadoes, including notably an EF-4 tornado that tore through the Dayton metro area on the night of May 27th of that year. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:E00D:F0AE:7BCE:63AE (talk) 04:23, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Which maybe my terminology is incorrect; but I usually interpret an outbreak sequence to be consecutive days with tornadoes; meaning, if/when a day without any tornadoes happens, the outbreak sequence comes to an end. That’s just my opinion anyway. 2601:5C5:4380:FD80:E00D:F0AE:7BCE:63AE (talk) 04:25, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

In that case, I suppose it's over; there were no tornado reports on May 15, and I can't find any news coverage beyond tornado watches and warnings. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 12:23, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Should the Barnsdall tornado get its own individual article?

And if it can't, then what are the requirements for tornadoes to get its own article? Hoguert (talk) 20:52, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Most likely not. It really already fails the notability criteria, as there haven't really been any news on the tornado. If you'd like to see tornado article criteria, see WP:NADOCRIT. Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia! :) MemeGod ._. (My talk page, my contributions and my creations!) 20:57, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

That is ONLY the criteria for a mention on tornadoes of 2024. It also has has to meet WP:LASTING. 12.74.221.43 (talk) 16:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

And plus, WP:NADOCRIT doesn’t exist. I think the criteria you’re referring to is WP:LASTING. 12.74.221.43 (talk) 16:42, 19 May 2024 (UTC)