Talk:Stephen of Ephesus

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Story of the Seven Sleepers[edit]

In 1953 Ernst Honigmann published an article in which he strenuously argues for Stephen of Ephesus as the commisioning party for (or even the first author of) the legend of the Seven Sleepers. It is an interesting theory and certainly worth reading. But the fact that no one seems to have directly refuted Honigmann's conclusion since then should not be taken as widespread acceptance. Most importantly, the starting point of his argument, that the origin of the legend can be fixed in Ephesus around the middle of the fifth century because the church of the Seven Sleepers complex was built around that time, is no longer tenable. Recent archeological research has found that the complex had been in use as a burial site since the 3rd century and the church was built in the late(?) 4th century.^[1] Since the theory is already out there on the internet,^[2] I feel that it should be referred to in this wikipedia article, but with the right disclaimer. TKoster (talk) 12:28, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a RS which discusses this theory? And is this theory widely accepted or WP:FRINGE? Veverve (talk) 13:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is a work of genuine scholarly output^[3] But an important part of the data it was based on is outdated and therefore the theory needs to be re-evaluated (can I interest any of you Byzantine scholars out there???) TKoster (talk) 15:20, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But is the theory common, or is it a fringe theory? A good way to know if it is or not, would be to have a tertiary source (a dictionnary or an encyclopedia) discussing the theory positively or at least not negatively. Veverve (talk) 15:52, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reading up on fringe theories (thanks for sharing the page, that helps) - Honigmann's theory can be classified as Alternative theoretical formulations. Honigmann is the only one who has supported this theory in a peer-review article. Mainstream opinion is that the author is unknown, with even the language in which the legend was originally written still disputed.

At the moment Honigmann's theory is being given undue weight in Wikipedia, with the claim on two separate pages that Stephen of Ephesus is 'the first recorded source' of the legend. TKoster (talk) 16:04, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Again, you need sources to make such claims about alleged undue weight. Veverve (talk) 16:09, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I see that now. I will look into sources discussing the state of the question of the origin of the seven sleepers legend. Thanks for your help so far. TKoster (talk) 16:11, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The current version of the Seven Sleepers article already references a source which lays out three current hypotheses and also gives a place to Honigmann's contribution.^[4] I think I have all the information needed to start editing the articles on Stephen of Ephesus and Metropolis of Ephesus. TKoster (talk) 18:54, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Norbert Zimmermann, 'The Seven Sleepers of Ephesos: From the First Community Cemetery to a Place of Pilgrimage' in: Sabine Ladstätter – Paul Magdalino (Eds.) EPHESOS FROM LATE ANTIQUITY UNTIL THE LATE MIDDLE AGES Proceedings of the International Conference at the Research Center for Anatolian Civilizations, Koç University, Istanbul 30th November – 2nd December 2012
^ https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/10/historicity-of-seven-sleepers-of.html
^ Ernst Honigmann. " Stephen of Ephesus (April 15- 448 - October 29, 451) and the Legend of the Seven Sleepers." Patristic Studies, vol. 173 (= Studi e testi) (1953): 125-168.
^ Bartłomiej Grysa, "The Legend of the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus in Syriac and Arab Sources: A Comparative Study", Orientalia Christiana Cracoviensia 2 (2010): 45–59

[1] Norbert Zimmermann, 'The Seven Sleepers of Ephesos: From the First Community Cemetery to a Place of Pilgrimage' in: Sabine Ladstätter – Paul Magdalino (Eds.) EPHESOS FROM LATE ANTIQUITY UNTIL THE LATE MIDDLE AGES Proceedings of the International Conference at the Research Center for Anatolian Civilizations, Koç University, Istanbul 30th November – 2nd December 2012

[2] ttps://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/10/historicity-of-seven-sleepers-of.html

[3] Ernst Honigmann. " Stephen of Ephesus (April 15- 448 - October 29, 451) and the Legend of the Seven Sleepers." Patristic Studies, vol. 173 (= Studi e testi) (1953): 125-168.

[4] Bartłomiej Grysa, "The Legend of the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus in Syriac and Arab Sources: A Comparative Study", Orientalia Christiana Cracoviensia 2 (2010): 45–59

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