Talk:Siege of Nisibis (252)

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The siege of 252[edit]

Hello, I hav re-created the page for the 252 invasion (Siege of Nisibis (252)). I have provided sources related to this campaign conducted by Shapur I. The date is debated by scholars but it is certain that this city fell during Shapur's first campaign on Syria (his second general invasion of the Roman empire). Im not exerienced with this topic so I will leave other editors to expand on it.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 22:47, 19 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Attar-Aram syria: Hi, thanks for your contribution. However, i have some doubts about the date (252) of this siege. The problem with your sources is that they're only based upon al-Tabari. Your source number 1 states : "Tabari's description of a capture of Nisibis in 252 is reflected nowhere else in the literature or in the SKZ and seems not to fit with Shapur's strategy". As to your source number 2, it states : "The date adopted here is that given by al-Tabari (eleventh year of the reign of Shapur : i.e. 251/2), but Nisibis is not among any of the lists of captured cities in the S KZ, nor is its capture stated unequivocally in Roman sources". this is why i asked Oshwah to redirect the article to a well-sourced siege of Nisibis in 235 or 237. If you do not have any more reliable sources about this battle, then with your permission, i will redirect the article again. Best regards.---Wikaviani (talk) 00:36, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, yes, the 252 date is based on sources that can be argued about. However, a reader will read somewhere about a campaign conducted by Shapur in 252 and he will need to know why the year 252 is mentioned. Why redirecting (and thus eliminating) a useful information that answers the questions of readers? Prominent scholars speak about this year so it’s a hypothesis that deserves its place. My sources are not Tabari, they are two reliable sources talking about the hypothesis that Shapur invaded the city in 252 and what support this hypothesis. Therefore, Im against redirecting this article (and we are editors, so we dont give permissions, we just try to cooperate and reach an understanding my friend). We can change the title of the article from the siege of 252 to something like: Shapur I's reported siege of Nisibis in 252. But elemiating such an info, when many academic sources speak about a siege of 252, is a negative move.

Some books I found that speak of a 252 siege or a take of Nisibis by Shapur in the 250s: Empress Zenobia: Palmyra's Rebel Queen - A Journey to Palmyra: Collected Essays to Remember Delbert R. Hillers. So, shouldnt Wikipedia at least give the readers an insight about this date and why some sources mention it? the article of 252 does not talk about the campaign, rather about the notion that there might have been a campaign. Hence, a change of its title is reasonable, but redirecting an article about a battle by Shapur to an article about a battle by Ardashir is at least a questionable move.Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 00:50, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I will leave the discussion as I have made my view clear. I will leave it to the judgment of the involved editor to do what he see best (and hope other interested editors will enrich the discussion). Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 01:17, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, i understand your concerns and since you provided some sources supporting a conquest of Nisibis by Shapur in 252, it's ok for me to keep the date. I will take a look at your sources and possibly include them in the article. As to the "permission" stuff, i was just trying to be polite and respectful with an experienced editor like you. Regards.---Wikaviani (talk) 02:23, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]