Talk:Robert Bertie, 1st Earl of Lindsey

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Biography: Military / Peerage and Baronetage

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Essex's expedition 'to Cambridge'?[edit]

I think there has been a mistake when it is stated Bertie had been in the Elizabethan 'Essex's expedition to Cambridge'. I suspect you mean Cadiz? I invite others to correct it in case my guess is incorrect.Cloptonson (talk) 20:17, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Cloptonson: I've found a source (DNB) and corrected this. The source for "Cambridge" seems to be a 19th-century book, or possibly its transcription: A Book of Golden Deeds Of all Times and all Lands by Charlotte Yonge (1823–1901) – see here. The two "favourite Earls" of Elizabeth I were Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester, and Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex, and the latter was at Cádiz, as was Bertie. Surprising that such an obvious error survived, from the very first version of the article, for 16 years – well spotted. Dave.Dunford (talk) 10:08, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Death[edit]

I have changed the subsection heading 'His death at Edge Hill' to simply 'Death', because he died not on the battlefield but while he and his son were on their way as prisoners into Warwick Castle. I possess a guidebook to Warwick Castle (which I have cited), which recounts this. I have written this detail into the existing account, which seeming gave impression he was never moved away from the battlefield. The same guide recalls that the son was kept there, in Guy's Tower, and the Castle (at time of publication and my visit to the Castle in 1970s) still possessed a portrait of him.Cloptonson (talk) 20:54, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Edge Hill[edit]

The detail in the subsection about the Battle of Edgehill (much of which is uncited) is rather extensive for this biographical article and ought to confine itself to Lindsey's participation in the battle while much of the rest could go into the main article on the battle.Cloptonson (talk) 12:28, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This uncited sentence understates the size of the Royalist army at Edgehill:

The whole of his [the King's] forces, about 11,000 in number, were not assembled till two o'clock in the afternoon...

The cited figures given in the info box in the article on the battle gives the figures as 11,000 infantry, 3,000 cavalry and 1,000 dragoons, indicating a manpower total of 15,000. I therefore delete the erroneous figure. Cloptonson (talk) 06:42, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Birth year[edit]

I want to raise an alert over the accuracy of his birth year being given as 1582, because his article in the original Dictionary of National Biography, which is one of the works used in citation by this article, places his date of birth as 16 December 1572. This will enhance his age at death as being 69 if this is genuine, but it would also make him a more mature young adult than age 18 when he commanded the English forces at the siege of Rheinburg in 1601. This needs checking out with other sources like the more recent Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. I also wonder what his monument in Edenham Church states his age as, for those based closer to or in Lincolnshire.Cloptonson (talk) 19:15, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just realised the writer of the DNB article may have been in error, as a check of the wiki article on his father shows his parents did not marry until 1577 so would not have produced him in 1572.Cloptonson (talk) 19:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Further confirmation of my last conclusion - I have today read his article in the ODNB which states that the claim of 1572 was made by an earlier writer the DNB article writer drew from, named David Lloyd, who had also presented other information at odds. The ODNB article writer, Andrew Thirsk, points out his tomb monument states he died aged 60 in 1642, and that Bertie was a minor (ie under 21 years old) at his father's death in 1601. Lloyd also states Bertie was knighted by Essex at Cadiz but no other record confirms this. I therefore accept 1582 as the birth year.Cloptonson (talk) 18:19, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This needs radical revision[edit]

As it stands, this is a very poor article that looks like it's been copied verbatim from some old text of little merit. 2A00:23C6:CE11:EF01:1419:2B81:11EA:9D51 (talk) 20:37, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]