Talk:Late Middle Ages/GA1

GA Review

I am going to look over this article this afternoon. Charles Edward 18:16, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

1. In opening summary you state the two periods that preceed the late middle ages, you could add the period the followed the late middle ages also.
2. Combined with this influx of classical ideas was the invention of printing which facilitated, change "printing" to "printing press" (or whatever you think appropriate) to clarify.
3. With the Fall of Constantinople in 1453, the Byzantine Empire was permanently extinguished, this is not quite accurate - the "empire" continued on for still some time with enclaves in greece and the balkans. That should be clarified.
4. It also should be noted that the Ottoman Empire reached it's peak power and influence during this age.
5. Cities were of course also decimated by the Black Death, but the urban areas' role as centres of learning, commerce and government ensured continued growth. - remove "of course"
6. Also the state was guilty of discrimination against the Jews, as monarchs gave in to the demands of the people, the Jews were expelled from England in 1290, from France in 1306, from Spain in 1492 and from Portugal in 1497. Break this up into a couple sentences to read better.
7. Through battles such as Courtrai (1302), Bannockburn (1314), and Morgarten (1315), it became clear to the great territorial princes of Europe that the military advantage of the feudal cavalry was lost, and that a well equipped infantry was preferable. Are these the best examples? Battle of Crecy and Battle of Poitiers (1356) would probably be the best example of all - staggering defeats that were felt for decades, all due to heavy reliance on calvary.
8. Parallel to the military developments emerged also a constantly more elaborate chivalric code of conduct for the warrior class. - this sentence should be reworded to be made more clear.
9. The military development makes no mention of the Hapsburgs response to Ottoman invasion, or the Ottoman invasion itself which was a major dynamic the age - The ninth crusade occurred around the beginning of the late middle ages. This should also be noted for context.
10. Though the Catholic Church had long fought against heretic movements, in the Late Middle Ages,, change "heritic" to "hertical". Also give an example, like the Cathers.
11. There is no mention of the Inquisition, that should be noted.
12. In the late thirteenth and early fourteenth centuries, a process took place – primarily in Italy but partly also in the Empire – that historians have termed a 'commercial revolution' - which empire, Holy Roman i would assume but it is not clear?
13. In the religion section more might be said to explain the pope's return to temporal power. After returning from France the pope was relatively powerless in international terms, once returning to autonomy in Rome they regained significant international power during the 15th century as would later be made manifest in the War of the League of Cambrai which occured at the end of the late middle ages.
14. In the sources section you should standardize all the book refs into one format. - the first three are different
15. Koenigsberger is listed several times in the footnotes but I don't see that book listed in the sources
16. The external links should be retitled to reflect the title of their pages.
17. Ref 127, Condemnation of 1277 (2003). Retrieved on 2008-04-21., needs publisher and\or author info
18. Several books that are listed in the sources are not used in the footnotes, like Smith and Jacob. The should be separated into a "further reading" section or removed or cited in the article.
19. There is also a minor MOS issue. Only the first occurance of a word or term should be wiki linked in the body of the article. Some terms are linked at more than one occurance like Ottoman Empire and Paris. That should be corrected.
20. The biggest issue I find overall is the themes. The late middle ages should follow several different themes that need to be brought out fairly clearly. You paint a very good broad picture but it might be good give a little more detail on the the central themes of the time. They are: 1) The brief regain in papal temporal power and the widespread corruption that sets in the 15th century, and its leadup to the reformation. 2) the end of the Hundred Years War and what it means to western Europe - future hegemony of France 3) The consolidation of Spain into one kingdom and it's Hegemony it western Europe during the 14 and 15 century, 4)Linked with 3, the Hapsburg Rise to power and consolidation of much of Europe and how it comes to form a bulwark against - 5) The Ottoman invasion. Although Ottomans are generally considered a middleastern type history in this period of time and the 16th century they are very much a european force. 6)lastly the them to note is it is the start of golden age of England in the 15th century, the discovery of the americas by Spain - setting the stage for the colonial era. - It would be good for the article to weave these themes in with more detail.

I don't think any of these things will be too hard to address. The article is well written and marvelously referenced. If you address these issues the GA review should pass. This is a great article with a large scope. Good job so far! Charles Edward 18:59, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for a very thorough review. I'm a bit busy right now, but I'll try to get to it within a week. Lampman ^{Talk to me!} 13:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

1. It is well written:

N(a) the prose is clear and the spelling and grammar are correct; and

N(b) it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, jargon, words to avoid, fiction, and list incorporation.

Y2.

(a} It is factually accurate and verifiable: it provides references to all sources of information, and at minimum contains a section dedicated to the attribution of those sources in accordance with the guide to layout;

(b) at minimum, it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons; and

(c) it contains no original research.

Y3. It is broad in its coverage:

(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and

(b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

Y4. It is neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias.

Y5. It is stable: it does not change significantly from day-to-day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

Y6. It is illustrated, if possible, by images:

(a) images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content; and

(b) images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

N Overall.

I am failing this article primarily because of the prose issues. 10 days have passed without any improvement. Address the prose issues and the article will be ready for GA, additionally address the minor issues with the references. To be ready for FA you will need to do more to incorporate the central themes I outlined above. Good job so far! Resubmit when the issues are cleared up. Charles Edward 13:27, 19 June 2008 (UTC)