Talk:Kalevala/Archive 2

Archive of talk page

Talk page was archived to save space and as all issues seem to have been resolved and/or forgotten about. If I did a bad let me know and prod my buttocks. --Hellahulla 17:53, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Alterations to the storyline section - 9th July 2006

Right, well I've been bold, firstly changed the Aino story image back to a smaller thumb, it looks silly as a large image.

I've altered the Contents list to be a little more fitting and descriptive (I think anyway).

I've added a little more to the characters section, not too much, but just to flesh it out a bit.

The largest alteration is to the overviews, I've changed the arrangements of the cantos, from the 8 cycles into 10 story segments. Now this has bothered me for a while, Bosley seems to think that Ilmarinens wedding belongs with the rivalry between him and Väinämöinen and that the attempts of Louhi to destroy Kalevala belongs with the plundering of the Sampo. They are related for sure, but they are different segments of the story. So I have sorted it into what seems more logical to me.

If someone has a problem with me altering what a published writer chose then just think about it, Bosley actually says in his book that Kullervo is defeated, right :)

Anyway that's my edit for the day, I'll sort out the larger synopses article later and maybe have internal links to each runo from the main Kalevala article, but I'll see later.

Thanks for your time and comments. --Hellahulla 01:14, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Kalevala Synopses

A more detailed synopsis of each Runo has been placed on the page Kalevala (Synopses). Review, correcting of grammar and spelling errors and general better making will be needed and appreciated. So please have a look over and give me hell if I don't do the poem justice. --Hellahulla 17:56, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Finnish nationalism?

I would suggest to keep Wikipedia of being neutral!

So please take off this sentence from the article.

"The Kalevala is credited with some of the inspiration for the national awakening that ultimately led to Finland's independence from Russia in 1917."

Looking deep in history, the north Russia these days is former Finnish-Ugorish Land. Like Karelia for example. And this Epos mostly written down from Karelia region. So we also like this epos very much and would not recogonise it as a foreign one. Just take a look on the russian version of this article. It is even bigger than that in English or in Finish languages. And we call it Karelic-Finnish Epos.

The culture of slavic and finish people mixtured a lot during the all history. So I can't see any contact points of Finnish independence and this Epos.

Thank you for your attention. Lefsha 20:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Remember it is a work published and accepted in Finnish, quite an achievement when the national tongue was still Swedish. Shortly (relatively speaking) after it's publication, changes began to happen, now I will not say (neither will any of the experts in this field) that it's publication was the root cause of the adoption of Finnish as a native language and subsequently Finland's independence (Because it wasn't), but it certainly effected the people and culture of Finland. That is good enough a reason for it to be recognised by scholars as a major part in Finland's national identity.

However, I wouldn't argue your point about the compilation and collection of the poems, most work was done in what is now Russian Karelia and what was then Russian territory, but if you go back in history far enough however, none of these countries even existed. If certain scholars ideas about the age of the folk poetry--which eventually became the modern Kalevala--are to be believed than the thing could even go back to pre roman times, just because it was written down and published in modern times doesn't mean it's not older. This however is a debate which will probably never be concluded and does not belong here. Because of this uncertainty about the actual age of the poems you can't place when in history the stories first appeared, go back to a certain time in history and it could even be an oriental tale.

As for article size, you are wrong about the size of the Wikipedia articles, the English article is significantly larger both in length and file size. In fact the German version is also larger than the Russian one but these are totally irrelevant points.

Oh, if you wish to add to the history of Kalevala please do so, citing sources along the way and what not, as there are far too many uncited parts of this article as it is. --62.173.194.7 08:29, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Finnish "translation"

Kai Nieminen has rewrote Kalevala to Finnish prose (titled "Kalevala 1999", published by SKS), and since this, at least imo, should be considered a translation, this should be added to the list of translation? Tried to do it myself, but the syntax of the table formatting was too much for me :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.255.159 (talk) 19:43, 24 February 2007

English Translations

Is there any particular English translation which is considered superior to the others? I'm interested in reading this and would like to get the best book that I can. The0ther 03:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

The Bosley translation is beautiful, and merits reading as a work of literature in its own right

The Peabody-Magoun is in prose, and much easier to read than any of the others, but loses 'something' as a result

My favourite is the Crawford version, but to really appreciate the feel, it must be read aloud, emphasizing the four beats in each line

e.g.

Ilmarinen, worthy brother,

Thou the only skilful blacksmith,

Go and see her wondrous beauty,

See her gold and silver garments,

See her robed in finest raiment,

See her sitting on the rainbow,

Walking on the clouds of purple.

Forge for her the magic Sampo,

Forge the lid in many colors,

Thy reward shall be the virgin,

Thou shalt win this bride of beauty;

Go and bring the lovely maiden

To thy home in Kalevala

It sounds like Hiawatha, and conjures up a drum beat with every line

chrisboote 13:27, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I would like to make my points :) I do not believe Bosley does Kalevala any justice, but I agree, it is a lovely work, just not fitting for Kalevala, I happen to prefer the Kirby version, its the one I've read the most and I find it the most flowing to read and the easiest to read in time :)

As for Crawford's version apart from obvious misspellings and translation difficulties (he did translate form the German after all) it is a lovely translation, and like most people it was the first version I read (from Gutenberg) I have it as a first edition on my bookshelf, because I love it so :)

The Magoun version offers so much in ways of interpretation both in the actual translation and as appendices, its wonderful to read if you want to know more about the history and culture of the Kalevala rather than just a good poem to read.

Oh yeah Gutenberg, the Kirby translation will soon be available for free viewing, as soon as I know about it I'll linky. I worked on it a lot, I think I did most of the first volume, so when you read it, be gentle :) (The PPs will have driven any of my screw ups out of it anyway)

Thanks.

P.S. Sorry for sounding proud, but I really do love Kalevala and feel a great deal for it. --Hellahulla 16:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I have the Oxford World's Classics translation. It is quite good in its own translation if you ask me and seems to hold no errors. Cosmic Gardener 05:43, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

MENTION OF THE RUSSIAN FOLK METAL BAND NAMED KALEVALA

I add mention of the russian fok metal band Kalevala? http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=239584537

New English translation

Hey, what do we know about this guy? Edward Taylor Fletcher. Is this a legit edit? I'll look into it when I get the chance, but if anyone knows, please let me know.

Found the article online and a publication in a library in Toronto, so yeah, it's legit and we have a nicely formatted citation to prove that. --Hellahulla (talk) 19:26, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Portuguese translation by Moreira

The article says that Orlando Moreira's 2007 translation is partially available online. Does anyone know where exactly? Please add a reference if you know. I could not find it with a little googling. --Jonik (talk) 19:10, 1 March 2010 (UTC)