Talk:Isa Khan

Moved section

moved this redundant information here. altaf 05:57, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Bangla was a very crucial area for the outcomers and Bhuiyans always tried to keep it independent. Isa brilliantly resisted Mughal aggression and succeeded in maintaining his independence against the Mughal onslaughts for a quarter of a century. Emperor Akbar failed to establish his authority over the Bhati region during the lifetime of Isa Khan.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Md.altaf.rahman (talk • contribs) 05:57, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

more info :

It would not be an exaggeration to designate him as one of the national heroes in recognition of the heroism which he demonstrated to preserve the regional sovereignty of Bengal in a transitional phase of her history.

Remove irrelevant image

The following image of Panam City is irrelevant in this article. Panam City was established in around mid 1800s, at least 250 years after the death of Isa Khan (1599 CE). Until a suitable image is found, the photo is removed from the article. altaf 22:43, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Md.altaf.rahman (talk • contribs) 22:43, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Status of Bhara Buiyans?

correct me if im wrong, by checking Baro Bhuiyans it seems they divided to 2 groups, Adi Buyans and western group. which one was led by Isa Khan?Ahendra (talk) 23:57, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

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Administration

I removed the section because the only source given pointed to Bengali ballads. It would be interesting to find out all the regions under Isa Khan's control (particularly for the Kingdom of Bhati article, where it makes more sense), but this list is neither complete nor reliable. For example, it doesn't mention areas in Jessore (which fell under Isa Khan's reign, according to the Jesuits) Additionally, the notion of Isa Khan's submission to Akbar is not supported by most sources, which maintain that he refused to travel to Agra despite an invitation. All reliable sources note Akbar's failure to conquer Isa Khan's dominion, which happened under Jahangir.--F2416 (talk) 05:48, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

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Afghan / Rajput background

@Noorullah21: @Sutyarashi:
Opening this discussion re the potential Bais Rajput background of the article subject as I notice there is back and forth editing in the recent page history.

I believe its a mistake to omit all mention of the potential Rajput background which seems to have been the case recently. A cursory search reveals a large number of publications which appear to be RS discussing this (perhaps more so than appears for an Afghan background?) Among these is The Zamindars and Nawabs of Bengal by Samir Ganguli, which Noorullah21 used as a reference here, though oddly as a citation for Khan being Afghan, despite the cited page actually discussing him being Rajput.

I suggest replacing the article sentence in question with the below. Note that the reference is RS (the author is Atul Chandra Roy, who was Professor of Islamic History and Culture at Calcutta University for three decades until the 90s) and mentions the origins of both alleged background theories.

In his Ain-i-Akbari, Abu'l Fazl refers to Isa Khan as Afghan, though conversely in the Akbarnama assigns a Rajput origin, specifically of the Baiswaras of Oudh. The latter background is mirrored in a family tradition noted by James Wise that Isa Khan's father had been a Bais Rajput named Kalidas Gajdani, who received the title Sulaiman Khan upon converting to Islam.

Alivardi (talk) 20:17, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

The source of Samir Ganguli states:

"Isa Khan Masnad-i-Ali was an Afghan Bhuinya..." -- They show a depiction of his family tree stating that his grandfather (?) Bhagirath was a Kshatriya Rajput. [1]

I don't want to use earlier sources like Abu Fazl since more reliable WP:RS secondary sources clearly push forward the idea of an Afghan origin -- especially complying with WP:AGEMATTERS, scholarly secondary sources are preferred.

James Wise would also be against WP:RAJ. If there's any notion of reliable secondary sources that can be added further providing information on his family background, then we can definitely add more.

"Note that the reference is RS (the author is Atul Chandra Roy, who was Professor of Islamic History and Culture at Calcutta University for three decades until the 90s) and mentions the origins of both alleged background theories."

Can you cite it for further evaluation? Noorullah (talk) 00:19, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

@Noorullah21

Re the Ganguli source, could you please clarify what you're interpreting this page is saying? It extensively discusses his Baiswara Rajput grandfather and his Hindu-to-Muslim convert father.

Re Abu'l Fazl and James Wise, neither of these works are cited by the suggested insert. The citation is for the secondary source by Roy. The use of secondary sources is discussed in WP:AGEMATTERS: "However, newer secondary and tertiary sources may have done a better job of collecting more reports from primary sources and resolving conflicts, applying modern knowledge to correctly explain things that older sources could not have, or remaining free of bias that might affect sources written while any conflicts described were still active or strongly felt."

Re Atul Chandra Roy:

"Prof. Atul Chandra Roy , who was with the Department of Islamic History and Culture , Calcutta University , for more than 30 years , retired in 1996 and joined the Asiatic Society as a Research Professor . He died in 1997 ."

(P.T. Nair, 'Decline of Persian Studies in Calcutta.' Indo-Iranica Vol.52, p.38)

Alivardi (talk) 01:23, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

@Alivardi actually Ganguli is not a historian at all. Hence I have removed it. Sutyarashi (talk) 05:56, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Regarding your assessment of Roy, he is an established historian. His source can be included in the article. Sutyarashi (talk) 05:58, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

References