Talk:Artem

Use of pronunciation or foreign spelling in selecting names

That article goes by the English spelling, not the pronunciation

Why? The article states "Artem (Ukrainian: Артем) is a common Ukrainian male given name, it is not to be confused with the similar Russian name Artyom which is spelled with the "ё" letter, giving a "YOM" ending sound", but most people in the list indeed have a Russian name Артём (with "ё"). They obviously do not belong to the article right now. Either definition or the list should be changed.

To be more clear: there are Russian name Артём and Ukranian Артем. In english Артем из spelled like "Artem", but Артём is spelled both like "Artyom" and "Artem". If this article devoted to Ukranian version of the name only, then people with the same spelling of the different name do not belong here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.49.101.14 (talk) 19:36, 10 October 2016 (UTC) Disagree This is the English Wikipedia. This page is about people with their name spelled "Artem" in English. There is no mention in the article about how the name is pronunciation. There is no wp:policy on adding people to one list or another based on pronunciation. You could possibly split the list into two sections. One pronounced Артем and the other Артём. I have no opinion on this and don't know if others would find it acceptable. However, if their name in English is spelled "Artem", it should go on this page irregardless if it is pronounced "Артём", "Артем", or "José" (It is legal in the US to pronounce it any way you like) Jim1138 (talk) 19:26, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Disagree "There is no mention in the article about how the name is pronunciation." That is wrong, there is. In the top right corner of the article there is pronunciation, but most of people from the list do not match it. Again, as it follows from the text of article, this article is devoted to specific name, not specific spelling. And it doesn't matter what is legal and where, it matters what makes sense. Either text of article should be edited, or the list of people. In my mind second makes more sense. Not changing anything = spreading incorrect knowledge, which I believe Wikipedia is not about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.49.101.14 (talk) 19:36, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Then add an alternate pronunciation in template:Infobox given name: Insert the pronunciation(s) of the name. Separate multiple entries with a line break (<br />) Example of a name with multiple pronounciations: Chloe, Fatima (given name), Mahir Jim1138 (talk) 21:11, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Just read the article, without the list of people it is only one sentence. Read the history of the article. The very point why articles Artem and Artyom were separated is different pronunciation. The very reason why these are considered different names is different Cyrillic spellings (which lead to different pronunciation. Ukrainian name Artem doesn't have alternative pronunciations). The reason why half of names from the list have different pronunciation is because these people have different name, just with the same spelling. They should be in the "Artyom" article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.49.101.14 (talk) 21:36, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

The article is "Artem" not "People with the English version of Artem not pronounced Artyom". If their name is spelled "Artem" it goes in this article not in the "Artyom" article. People looking for someone named "Artem" will look here, not in "Artyom". If you disagree, use wp:dispute resolution. Unless you can find some wp:policy on the matter, there is nothing more to discuss here. wp:consensus has not been reached and the article should stay as-is. If you want to break Artem into two sections with different pronunciation, please do. Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 22:31, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

>People looking for someone named "Artem" will look here, not in "Artyom".

OK, I see what you are saying, that actually makes sense. However, what I say makes perfect sense just as well. Article defines what it is about - it is about specific Ukrainian name, that half of people in the list do not have. Two cities with identical names would have different pages, right? So why put two names with the same spelling in one? There is no sense in having someone from Portland, OR to the list of honorable citicens of Portland, Me.

Actually, I looked up the history of article "Artyom" and there is the special section for Artem's, but whoever was filling it just put all Artem's there (including Ukrainian ones) and whoever noticed it just deleted all of them (including Russian ones) and put there link to this page (what is not even correct).

Anyway, what are possible solutions at this point? Merging articles doesn't seem reasonable, also there already was an attempt 4 years ago. Then we can put "Artyom's" in the special section in the "Artyom" article (which is already present there), remove them from here and put something like "Russian name Artyom is also often spelled as Artem." so that people have idea that they might need to check there too.

Better ideas?

The Ukrainian names should be under "Artem", and only there. Russian names should be under both "Artyom" (since that's the transliteration) and "Artem" (since that's an alternative transliteration). Properly sorting out Russian "Artems" from Ukrainian ones is, of course, the crux of the problem. We need a volunteer for that (and to keep an eye on future additions, once the task is accomplished).—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); October 20, 2016; 14:05 (UTC)

Sorting ones from others is pretty straight forward since Cyrillic spelling is different and almost everyone in the list has the Cyrillic spelling in their article, pretty much we just need to add to "Artyom" everyone I attempted to delete from here. I can also check updates every now and then.

However, I have an objection too. Right now this article claims to be exclusively about Ukrainian name, so having Russian names here as well is going to be somewhat confusing. If we do so, I would offer to modify the article then somehow along these lines: "Artem may refer to one of two names:\n Artem\n Paragraph about Ukrainian name.\n list of corresponding people\n Artyom\n link to the article\n list of corresponding people"129.49.101.21 (talk) 15:38, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

This article should definitely not be just about the Ukrainian name (although primarily about it, yes). "Artem" is a very, very common way to transliterate the Russian name, so that should be mentioned in addition to the information about the Ukrainian name. There are plenty of other names which are spelled identically but come from different languages (and may even be completely unrelated); there is nothing wrong with bundling them all under one title as long as different aspects are properly addressed. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); October 27, 2016; 13:41 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Artyom which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 03:00, 4 April 2018 (UTC)