Help talk:IPA/Saidi Arabic

Needs deletion[edit]

Guys, this key page is fake. It's misleading. It's simply a copy of the help of Hejazi Arabic, which is another different article. A simple comparison between both articles of the dialects reveals how inappropriately this non-help page was made!

If duplicating pages using different names isn't a good reason for deletion, then what is a good reason?!

Currently, these are the users who contributed to the page: @Sefarat90, Nardog, GnolizX, Pervadash, and Justlettersandnumbers:

--Mahmudmasri (talk) 16:28, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's also completely unnecessary, as no articles link to it. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]} 16:47, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've twice declined speedy deletion here, because no valid reason to speedily delete was provided on either occasion (and I can't see that there is one, though WP:A10 might perhaps apply). I suggest taking this to WP:MfD for discussion. Sefarat90, if you copied this from elsewhere in Wikipedia, you must provide attribution; that's most easily done using {{copied}}. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:26, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What about C1. Unpopulated categories? — Æµ§œš¹ _{[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]} 17:40, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and merged to Help:IPA. This situation has happened before and WP:MOSPRON#Other languages implies pretty heavily that a need for a key should be established first before creating one. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]} 19:48, 4 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mahmudmasri I don't understand why you want to delete the entire article. If you find something in it, you might change it. But Saidi Arabic pronunciation is identical to that of Hejazi Arabic, and we need a page for it. I am a Saidi and I find that very offensive to actually remove an article that describes how we pronounce our letters. You can modify that page, but don't delete it!

Mahmudmasri I actually think that you might be doing that out of a political view that hates to see any dialects in Egypt having any publicity other than "Egyptian Arabic", please don't try to enforce your political views here. We do need a page for Saidi Arabic pronunciation.

Aeusoes1 I reverted the merge, if you want to add anything to the article, or modify it, go ahead and do it but don't concede to someone who wants to erase people's identities! Also, you said no articles lead to it. Actually some do, but they are few, that's because it was a newly created article, let it stay for a couple of months and more articles will lead to it. Thanks!

Aeusoes1 In fact, i just realized something, Mahmudmasri, went to all the articles that lead to this page and removed all references to the page. Which is really a zealous, fascist thing to do! Why would you remove Saidi Pronunciation from Saidi City names?!

@Nardog, GnolizX, Pervadash, and Justlettersandnumbers: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sefarat90 (talk • contribs) 17:22, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Before throwing blind accusations at me, you need to rethink. I see on your page you described yourself as a PhD student implying that you knew enough about the topic Saidi Arabic, which doesn't seem to be the case, since you claimed it's identical to Hejazi Arabic, which is far from true. I saw that you tried to create articles for what you considered dialects (examples: Draft:Shargawi_Arabic, Draft:Behairy Arabic), but were unrecognized dialects by known sources which were actually at best variants/sub-dialects of Egyptian Arabic (a.k.a. Lower Egypt Arabic). Not to mention your non-IPA notation [Shargawi] [Behairy]. An accessible source like Ethnologue even states that Saidi Arabic is similar to Sudanese Arabic! I had to revert your unreferenced claims of bloating the native speakers. I also occasionally revert claims of bloated numbers of natives for Egyptian Arabic, because apparently some people miss the point of first language.

I don't have enough reference in hand and not enough time to supplement your erroneous key page, but it's very inappropriate to keep linking IPA notations I made with that wrong key, even replacing correct common pronunciations in Egyptian Arabic! If someone needs to correct your copied pronunciation key, then it appears to be you, but until you do so, you shouldn't link any transcription to it. Lastly, re-read my initial comment, it answers your wonderings. You also seem to miss the point of pronunciation I gave for the dialect by northerners and labeled it Saidi pronunciation! Are you sure you know what you are doing? --Mahmudmasri (talk) 20:40, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Two things. First, this is not supposed to be an article on Saidi Arabic. The Help/IPA for X pages are IPA keys designed to explain Wikipedia transcriptions. Encyclopedic content about a variety's sound system go at the relevant article (with citations, of course). Given that the content provided here is inconsistent with the article content, I don't see merit in including contentious, transcriptions with an unsupported IPA key with no consensus.

Second, and more important. It is a serious no-no to make personal attacks against other editors. You can see this explained at WP:NPA. If you do it again, you will be reported at ANI and this may lead to sanctions.

I'm not interested in edit warring, so I'll let other editors restore the merge if they're so inclined. But there's an uphill battle to getting this page working as a functional IPA key and that will involve sources and discussion. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]} 03:50, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"H:IPA-AEC" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect H:IPA-AEC. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Wug·a·po·des 07:33, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For those who think something is wrong with the page. Go ahead and correct it, I don't see any reason why you want to delete the page other than political leanings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sefarat90 (talk • contribs) 20:35, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please read others' comments on this. As has been explained, this should not be a content fork for article content. These IPA for X pages are designed for explaining Wikipedia transcriptions of the languages in question. There are no such transcriptions for Saidi Arabic. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]} 15:26, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]