User talk:Uness232/Archives/2021/August

Thank you

I, on behalf of my fellow Wiki editors, would like to thank you for taking the Turkoman (ethnonym) page for a GA review. The mentioned article is of great significance for a great number of Turkic ethnic groups living across Asia Minor, Caucasus, Iran and Central Asia. A couple of specific editors, including me, spent hours trying to improve this page and bring it to the level where it is now. We appreciate your time and effort. Waiting for your assessment. Take care! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 05:00, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Justin Suarez GAN

Hi there, just dropping a line to let you know that I've responded to your comments on the Justin Suarez Good Article nomination. Thank you for taking the time to review this so quickly :-)--Changedforbetter (talk) 18:23, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

To be fair, I think the article made my job pretty easy, there weren't many problems to begin with. So I guess thank you for writing a well-written article! Anyways, I will be back with a final review as soon as possible. Uness232 (talk) 18:29, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Hardiness zone

Hello.

Can you also re-add in the article Hardiness zone, the section "European cities (AHS heat zones)" with sources in case you can find them? I think it is worthwile. Only Istanbul has a source about its AHS heat zone index (which ranks 3 and 4) which is present in the hardiness zones of European cities section. I was the one who re-added the hardiness zones of European cities, which was removed but is worthwile. Thank you for adding sources for each city and for your thorough research.

European cities (AHS heat zones)

City	Zone	City	Zone
Amsterdam, Netherlands	2	Antwerp, Belgium	2
Belfast, Northern Ireland	1	Berlin, Germany	3
Birmingham, England	2	Bratislava, Slovakia	4
Bucharest, Romania	6	Cardiff, Wales	1
Copenhagen, Denmark	2	Cork, Ireland	1
Derry, Northern Ireland	1	Dublin, Ireland	1
Düsseldorf, Germany	3	Edinburgh, Scotland	1
Gdańsk, Poland	2	Galway, Ireland	1
Glasgow, Scotland	1	Hamburg, Germany	2
Helsinki, Finland	2	Istanbul, Turkey	4
Kaliningrad, Russia	2	Kiev, Ukraine	4
Kraków, Poland	4	Lisbon, Portugal	7
Ljubljana, Slovenia	6	London, England	2
Madrid, Spain	8	Málaga, Spain	7
Marseille, France	7	Milan, Italy	6
Minsk, Belarus	3	Moscow, Russia	2
Munich, Germany	3	Murmansk, Russia	1
Nicosia, Cyprus	9	Oslo, Norway	2
Oulu, Finland	1	Palma, Spain	7
Paris, France	3	Perm, Russia	3
Prague, Czech Republic	3	Reykjavík, Iceland	1
Riga, Latvia	2	Rome, Italy	7
Rovaniemi, Finland	1	Saint Petersburg, Russia	2
Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina	5	Sevilla, Spain	9
Simrishamn, Sweden	1	Sochi, Russia	6
Sofia, Bulgaria	6	Stockholm, Sweden	2
Strasbourg, France	4	Tallinn, Estonia	2
Tuapse, Russia	7	Tórshavn, Faroe Islands	1
Tromsø, Norway	1	Trondheim, Norway	1
Umeå, Sweden	1	Vienna, Austria	4
Vilnius, Lithuania	2	Vorkuta, Russia	1
Warsaw, Poland	3	Zürich, Switzerland	4

Yours sincerely, 31.200.13.109 (talk) 08:03, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I did try to add the AHS zones, but the problem is that while the reliability of the hardiness zone data was far from impeccable, it was actually possible to find sources on it. As for AHS, I would have to look up and source 'days above 30 degrees' for every city from sites that are not designed to accomodate that data reliably (see infoclimat,, a site which claims that Rovaniemi is actually 2, bordering on 3 form obviously false data). I also don't necessarily understand why a system designed for the US has no US table, but a European one. But still, thanks for all your efforts on keeping the hardiness zones page alive. Uness232 (talk) 09:17, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Hello.

If I find enough credible sources that are not a copy of this article (many websites directly copy Wikipedia articles), I will let you know and add in the article. But I have not come across any real independent source over the years, that is not a copy of this article, yet. So I don't hold my breath.

Yours sincerely, 31.200.13.109 (talk) 12:06, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Of course, you also don't have to let me know (you can though), it's not like I would revert a well-sourced change on a page where more content is absolutely necessary. Uness232 (talk) 12:10, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

June 2021

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy by adding commentary and your personal analysis into articles, as you did at Mersin, you may be blocked from editing. Per WP:NCGN: Relevant foreign language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the English language or that is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place) are permitted. Ahmet Q. (talk) 11:05, 3 June 2021 (UTC)Uness232 (talk) 10:18, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

I'm not deleting this as I don't want evidence of these things being deleted, but this warning (actually a hastily copied version of the warning I gave, as you can see by the two signatures) was given to me for an explained revert of an edit made in the article Mersin, where the Greek name of the city was deleted with a reason non-compliant with WP rules. Uness232 (talk) 14:56, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Women in the Ottoman Empire

The article Women in the Ottoman Empire you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Women in the Ottoman Empire for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of A. Parrot -- A. Parrot (talk) 00:41, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Classical music

Hey, thanks for your initiative at the classical music—errrr Western classical music :)—page. I wrote the "Roots" section a few weeks ago, but alas, the article likely needs a complete rewrite at some point. One thing I'm concerned about is this bizarre "staff notation" idea; Western classical music had a good 500 years pre-staff notation, and I can't verify the line in the Brittanica source, though I don't think I have access to the 1972 Harvard Dictionary of Music anywhere. It also just doesn't make sense, plenty of cultures have had their own notations, before and after Guido's innovations. Aza24 (talk) 01:07, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

I've read (and slightly changed) the staff notation parts, and it does bother me too, although looking at your user page, I believe you have more information on early Western classical music than I do (I'm more of an Ottoman classical person to be honest), and I think I would not be a good fit for extensive editing on that front, unfortunately. Although if there's any attempt at a rewrite I would be happy to help, perhaps adding information that I have or just copyediting.

Back to the staff notation bit, I think the closest thing to reality I can decipher from that mess is this idea that Western staff notation is a lot more "direct"* at least compared to most other traditions, which is to some extent true, I believe, but it is obvious that this is not what this sentence is saying.

(*I'm not entirely sure what the correct term here is but for example, unlike in common practice Western classical tradition, in Ottoman tradition, the performers would add the accompaniment (to a notated melody) themselves, often by using complex heterophonic rules established in numerous treatises, or (usually after the 18th century) by some version of a durak-güçlü accompaniment, as in stacking C-G-C... and so on.) Uness232 (talk) 02:21, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

@Aza24 Also, forgot to mention, if anything I said up there (or assumed about Western classical music in general) is wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me! I would assume I got something wrong at some point :) . Uness232 (talk) 13:14, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Apologies for my terribly late response!—I think I read your messages but got distracted and forgot to respond. I do want to rewrite the article at some point; unfortunately my attention is on the History of music one at the moment. Though the HoM article's scope is so massive, I'll most likely take an extended break at some point, and perhaps turn towards the CM one. It's great to see your interest and knowledge in Ottoman art music; that, like most art music traditions, is terribly neglected on WP. I will likely come for assistance should I ever get to the topic in the history of music article!

On staff notation, I think I see we're you're coming from. Bernstein had some quote that Classical music should be called "exact music" because of its unchanging nature. But indeed this might be idealistic, notwithstanding the newer aleatoric music, there has always been things that disavow "exactness" like figured bass, chant ornamentation, unspecified instrumentation and such. Though I think the dominance of the staff still stands, especially in how classical music is viewed by outsiders. Aza24 (talk) 19:33, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words, and an apology is not needed at all. I am actually working (actually more so doing research for now) on the Ottoman music article, and if there is a need for reliable sources on the matter, I would definitely want to help.

Also, thank you for the nuance you provided to my statement! Uness232 (talk) 23:20, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Isles of Scilly

Hi, can I just ask you why did you leave the Isles of Scilly as "bordering a humid subtropical climate under the Trewartha climate classification"? Supposedly a humid subtropical climate according to koppen should not only have no more than 4 months below 10°C but also at least one month above 22°C and I think it's fair to say that the Isles of Scilly are pretty far from a 22°C average in August. I also don't recall the Trewartha climate classification having a humid subtropical classification, only a subtropical classification, which is fit for the Isles. Average Portuguese Joe (talk) 00:17, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

So humid subtropical is a category that exists in the Trewartha classification, its Wikipedia article and other sources confirm this claim. It is abbreviated as Cf (C for subtropical, f for humid) and its requirements are that no more than 4 months should be under 10 degrees and that there should be more than 30 mm of precip in every month. Köppen does not have the 10 degree rule, in fact its only rule regarding temperature is the 22 degree one, which is why Köppen is infamous for including NYC as humid subtropical.

Regarding your other claims, a subtropical climate can in fact also be oceanic, but neither Köppen nor Trewartha include such a definition, most "syncretic" analyses blending Köppen and Trewartha include a "subtropical oceanic" zone usually for Köppen's oceanic climates with milder winters, say northern coastal Spain or the Black Sea coast in Turkey.

Finally, a humid subtropical climate (according to Köppen) might not be subtropical to most people's minds, but this is rather because of a changing definition of what subtropical is; earlier definitions were basically "temperate climate with hot summers", which works well, not only with Köppen's classification, but also early genetic ones like Alisov's. Later on this definition was altered to something more along the lines of "temperate climate with mild winters", with the realization that winter severity is far more important for plant survival than an arbitrary 22 degree mark in summer, which is where Trewartha's definition comes from (I could argue that Trewartha does an even worse job, but this is an encyclopedia after all). Uness232 (talk) 00:32, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. The humid subtropical climate article is largely based on Köppen's classification. Like me, there are certainly a lot of other people that might mistake that article and only look at Köppen's definition. It might be necessary in the future to create a separate article to encompass Trewartha, as these definitions are very different from one another. Average Portuguese Joe (talk) 09:27, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

To be fair, I think that would need to include a rewrite of all climate pages, to encompass different climate classifications, but yeah I agree. Uness232 (talk) 11:27, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

UserTSKEnjojer.

Hello, Unless 232, I have been checking peculiar activity at user, have shown a heavily POV style in some edits. Specially regarding Operation Spring Shield. He tends to errase and revert content to his particular POV.Mr.User200 (talk) 17:53, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. I will keep an eye out for his edits, and will report to the ARV if he continues his disruptive actions. Uness232 (talk) 19:49, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Rollback granted

Hi Uness232,

After reviewing your request, I have added your account to the rollback group. Keep in mind these things when using rollback:

• Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
• Users should be informed (or warned) after their edits have been reverted. If warnings repeatedly don't help, WP:ANI is the default place to go. In cases of very clear ongoing intentional damage to the encyclopedia, WP:AIV can be used.
• Reverting someone's edits may confuse or upset them. Whenever other users message you on your talk page, please take the time to respond to their concerns; accountability is important. For most users who message you, the tone and quality of your message will permanently influence their opinion about Wikipedia in general.
• Because the plain default rollback link does not provide any explanatory edit summary, it must not be used to revert good faith contributions, even if these contributions are disruptive. Take the time to write a proper summary whenever you're dealing with a lack of neutrality or verifiability; a short explanation like "[[WP:NPOV|not neutral]]" or "[[WP:INTREF|Please provide a citation]]" is helpful.
• Rollback may never be used to edit war in a genuine content dispute. If you see others edit warring, please file a report at WP:ANEW.
• If you encounter private information or threats of physical harm during your patrols, please quickly use Special:EmailUser/Oversight or Special:EmailUser/Emergency; ideally bookmark these pages now. See WP:EMERGENCY and WP:OS for details. If you're regularly patrolling recent changes, you will need both contacts sooner or later, and you'll be happy about the bookmarks.
• Use common sense. If abused, rollback rights can be revoked.

To try rollback for the first time, you may like to make an edit to WP:Sandbox, and another one, and another one, and then revert the row with one click. I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, but feel free to leave me a message on my talk page if you run into trouble or have any questions about rollback. Thank you for your time and work in cleaning up Wikipedia. Happy editing!

Best regards,
~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:42, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Report.

Thank you.. I'll keep this in mind. However, I've spotted vandalism in the Old English section of the Phonological history of English page, there are 2 $ signs that look like vandalism. Here is the subsection where I found:

Early pre-cluster shortening: Vowels were shortened when falling immediately before either three consonances or the combination of two consonants and two additional syllables in the word. Thus, OE gāst > ModE ghost, but OE găstliċ > ModE ghastly (ā > ă/_CCC) and OE crīst > ModE Christ, but OE crĭstesmæsse > ModE Christmas (ī > ĭ/_CC$$).

It is located near the end of the Old English section in the Phonological History of English page. Hope you find it!(Deutschland1871 (talk) 20:54, 26 August 2021 (UTC))

I will revert that, but in no way do I want to discourage you from editing out vandalism. You are not only fully welcome, but also encouraged to revert any and all cases of such. My warning was only about your behavior towards other editors, accusing people of x-phobia or vandalism, especially when a case isn't clear cut, goes against Wikipedia:Assume good faith.

Thank you for your work, Uness232 (talk) 21:02, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Ok. ButvI fon't how to revert?(Deutschland1871 (talk) 21:08, 26 August 2021 (UTC))

Thank you for deleting it. btw, I don't know how to revert vandalism. Deutschland1871 (talk) 21:19, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh alright then, there are three ways of reverting vandalism for new editors.

If you want to undo a whole edit, going to the page history and pressing undo on that specific edit will revert it.

If you want to semi-automate this process, installing RedWarn (or Twinkle, though I find it less easy to use) can help, but I suggest you familiarize yourself with Wikipedia, get around 150-200 edits before installing these.

Or alternatively, if you don't want to bother finding the specific edit to revert, you can just manually change text by clicking the edit buttons on the top of the page. Uness232 (talk) 21:21, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Turkoman (ethnonym)

Hi, Uness232. How are you? I hope you are doing well and staying safe. I would like to request you humbly to re-visit Turkoman (ethnonym), the page you had previously assessed for GA and subsequently, made several very useful suggestions. I believe this page is now fully ready for your second review and has all what it takes to become a GA. Thank you in advance. Take care! --Visioncurve^{Timendi causa est nescire} 07:22, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi! First of all thank you for your kind words. I was actually keeping an eye on the changes to the article, but never really got around to asking you if you wanted a second review from me, so I would happily review the article again! Uness232 (talk) 16:19, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Pending changes on trwiki

Hello Uness! I've seen your comment on Visnelma's talk page regarding "Sürüm Kontrolü" on the Turkish Wikipedia. We actually need that system.

In the past 9 months I've accepted ~4300 edits. Rejecting edits automatically puts "Gerekçe:" in the edit summary, and a simple edit summary search shows that I rejected ~2250 edits (takes about 20 seconds to load), which means I reject 34% of changes I check. That alone is quite a high percentage, but this actually excludes the 750+ quick rollbacks because of obvious vandalism. With that it's over 40%.

Trwiki is regularly attacked by IPs and new users. The problem is that we don't know what set of articles they will attack next. In June it was articles of football players, last week it was k-pop related articles (we got attacked by 13 y.o. TikTokers...). There are also always those people in Turkey who think "what I write on Vikipedi becomes the truth!", which means we're constantly getting screwed by vandals.

If you have an issue with a specific patroller, you should use the complaints page, not question the whole system. Thanks! ~Styyx^{Talk? ^-^} 17:50, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

First of all, I mean no disrespect to the work you do, and I was quite angry the last time, I sincerely apologize for that. I still disagree with you on said system, but I do not see a need to argue in length on this, as I do not plan to edit frequently on trwiki, neither am I very optimistic about its future.

Thanks for your work on here as well on Turkish Wikipedia, though! Take care, Uness232 (talk) 18:05, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Well I'm obviously not here for a fist fight. :D Just pointed out some benefits. Honestly I'm also not that optimistic either. I looked at your contribs and found the incident you we're referring to and actually turns out that I accepted your second edit. It's sadly true that some patrollers are clicking on that revert button a bit too fast, sorry for that. Also, the ancestry box for Turkey is {{User Turkish}}. :) Have a good day! ~Styyx^{Talk? ^-^} 18:49, 28 August 2021 (UTC)